The spin was supposed to be a normal erect spin to the right, but for various unintentional reasons the spin went flat, up until that point I had never flat spun an aircraft. I eventualy mananged to get the aircraft into a normal erect spin from which I was able to recover. This aircraft is not fitted with an electric starter motor, so I was unable to restart the engine. During the “flare” to land the main undercarriage caught the top wires of a barbed wire fence that was invisible to me. After coming to rest inverted I waited 20mins for the rescue services to come and right the aircraft so I was able to exit via the outward opening canopy. The aircraft rotated 26 times total, I was extremely dissorientated after the recovery to straight and level flight, and was unable to read the instruments. From the video I estimate I recovered at about 700ft from an entry altitude of 3500ft. If you listen carefully you will hear me say:”I think this is it”. At that stage I did not think I would be able to recover. However I continued to try various control inputs based on the aircraft attitude and rotational rate, which eventually effected a recovery. My thanks go to the emergency services that found me and allowed my escape.
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25 Responses to “26 Turn Flat Spin in a Tipsy Nipper”
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it looked brutal
is your name neil? as you say, well this is it neil! Which is quite sad to hear? What was you feeling at that point?!
I need to be direct for your sake and the safety of others. You are an idiot. Period. You are lucky to have not been burned to death in an inverted crash. An aero designer said: [1] All spins are different and occasionally strangeness happens [2] Most a/c can do + G aeros OK but when strangeness happens u wish u had an aerobatic plane. That means not just stress limits but also known procedures to recover since it was deigned that way and plenty of “test” pilots confirmed them before u.
U created no safety buffers. I know VW a/c often have no starters due to weight. But aeros without inverted flight systems will routinely snuff the engine & u had no restart capability. 2nd, wrong place 4 aeros- no landing area. When i test a/c even for stall i have that under me in case the engine does not recover from idle. What if something structurally cracked & u needed to get down quickly? 3rd No escape method- chute or BRS. Aeros break things & maneuvers can be unrecoverable as u know
Summary. Do not think some magical pilot skills saved u from an agonsing death in an inverted plane as the fuel leaked on u. 1 more rotation & your vision could have been gone. You got yourself into the situation by a series of stupid decisions as recounted above. Wrong plane, wrong place, wrong training. It may never happen again in 20 yrs or may happen 2morrow. U decide the risk but simple precautions improve the odds. kiss yrr fuel tank maker. If they’d ruptured u would have died screaming.
Nice that you are direct.I need to fill in some holes in your knowledge:The Nipper is fully aerobatic,it does have fully inverted fuel and oil systems;it has been tested fully;it is not known for a tendancy to flat spin.I had created a safety buffer by adding 500ft to a normal entry at 3000ft.I cannot fit a BRS or wear a chute due to weight/size,that is a serious shortcoming I admit.The entry to the spin was incorrect,and if you read the text posted with the video or …..continued
……look at the LoopTV video as I suggest then you will see the reason I posted this video: for educational reasons.I agree with your comment about landing sites,I now practice over disused runways which are still usable.The fuel breather system was designed by me.There were no “magical pilot skills” involved in the recovery,just a thorough knowledge and understanding of aerodynamics,using that knowledge and not panicking.I fail to understand how my vision could “go” after 1 more…..cont’
Hi,
At that moment I thought my time had come, I considered my chances of survival was very slim if I did not recover, but I still had and airworthy aircraft under me and no-where to go. So I did not give up but analysed the situation and found a solution.
The flight man says nipper is semi-aerobatic. Engines don’t cut on real aerobatic a/c. No starter motor is no safety buffer. Even an ultralight has a pull cord! No chute/ no BRS= no aeros for FAA. The design has a firewall fuel tank. U were almost toast. I suspect soft ground helped you live. With a landing area u might still have a plane. A/C is a homebuilt i.e. minor variations in build means subtle diffs in performance as u found out. Attitude=good pilot not desperate stick work in a FUBAR
I have been where u are. I f-d up & people learned by my admission of gross stupidity. U need to do the same with loudspeakers lest people believe a close call with incineration can be saved by some stick work. Aeros demand aero a/c like STOL demands STOL. Wrong tool and wrong decisions narrowed your safety margin. Lucky a fluke control combo regained control. BS otherwise. U admit yr sitn awareness was close to gone. A cuppla more spins could’ve wrecked it if the ground didn’t kill u first.
Whenever i see an engine fail and i hear someone modified a fuel system i immediately go “u huh”. Could there be a link here?
I looked at the TV video. Basic ego defence and excuse building masquerading as “we should all train for flat spins”. Reality: a marginal aero plane, with no inflight engine start ability., a fuel system modified by you and an engine that quits (coincidence?), flown over an area with no place to land & without a BRS or chute as recovery options. U admit total disorientation yet claim cool decision making. Plane crashed inverted, trapped u & if yr firewall tank ruptured u wld be toast. admit it.
There is no ego defence going on,only a series of facts.I have offered no defence.I am not saying we should all train for flat spins,but awareness is knowledge.The fuel system had up until that point given any trouble,the engine stoppage was due to a rich cut,probably due to airflow disturbance.Should the fuel tank have failed there is a possibility that there may have been a fire with the associated risk.Dissorentation and descision making are not mutually exclusive.
All of this is post hoc reinterpretation to make u look like chuck yeager while feigning an “educational objective” in posting. Facts: wrong aircraft, botched entry, modded fuel system, stopped motor, no restart ability, no landing area, no chute/BRS. 25 secs in & u gave up verbally but we r expected to think u aerodynamically analysed yr exit. Truth: unlucky stick input got u inn & a lucky one got u out. Your aerodynamic gifts in the face of death did not prevent you botching the spin entry.
Look at the inconsistencies & reinterpretations. On the TV vid u say u were totally disoriented on the pullout but u turned into wind for the landing. BS. After 26 spins u cld barely hold wings level (see 1:25 to 1:31) as u admit. Straight ahead was out for landing so you banked left. 99% of the time pilots turn left in emergencies courtesy of hours of left hand training circuits. So you “knew” the wind direction after 26 spins (?) but still couldn’t hold wings level. BS.
Real story: U fluked exiting the spin, looked ahead, saw no hope, turned left as most pilots instinctively would and took what you had (zero). For 20 mis u were trapped in a crashed, inverted a/c that could have been leaking fuel and you wouldn’t know until the bang. Must have been a lot of fun, strapped in waiting to burn. This is not an educational video since it educates us to use wrong planes with wrong capabilities without safety marginsa and then seek notoriety rather than accept idiocy.
You would be best served removing this video because it does not encourage pilots to use the right tools and processes for aerobatics. It is a thinly veiled piece of exhibitionism designed to make you look like a gifted pilot whereas you lack the airmanship that would have prevented this crash in the first place. Chuck Yeager said “All aiplanes kill fools” & you are one lucky fool who just won’t admit his foolishness. I see u still fly this plane with no chute/BRS or restart ability. Brilliant.
I also note from the TV vid that you were looking for a cheap plane for aeros. In aviation cheap usually means dangerous and in aeros it usually means death. If that ground had been harder (you said there was water off yr crashed left wingtip) then u might already be dead. If your firewall fuel tank had cracked u would be very crispy. If u had inverted in shallow water u cld have drowned. Get a real aero a/c, a chute, some advanced training & u might live. But no more BS “there i was..” videos.
why didn’t the prop start spinning once he got out of the stall and dropped the nose? also some clarification on what he did to get it into a flat spin from a regular spin?
You were not there,you have your own interpretation of the situation and timing of decisions and are very vocal at airing them.The video stays,as from feedback via this column and other forums it has done exactly what I had hoped:open discussion and awareness of flat spins and recovery.You don’t know me,fame is not what the video was posted for.I have admitted my mistakes,but I will be buggered if I am going to be bullied by a very self opinionated and vocal “expert”.
Hi,
To get the engine turning again needs a much higher speed.
The use of pro’ spin aileron, rapid rudder input and operating the a/c with the CofG close to the rear limit was enough to make the spin go flat immediately.Normally full power with up elevator and out-turn aileron is needed to get an erect spin to go flat.
With reference to removing this video, my personal opinion is that it should remain on this website, purely to educate those who fail to consider the consequences of spin entry.
Glad you’re okay. I think that having the video on here is a good thing. Good luck, safe flying.
Moobradidi, Why don’t you put down your Playskills logbook, and your plastic Captain’s hat and wings that you won when you logged 100 hours playing flight simulator. Then, go to your local FBO, and dig deep in your tighty-whiteys for your man parts. If you find anything at all, sign up for flight lessons. Until then, your just another asswife, with a big mouth. This guy is lucky to be alive, and the video may save lives.
Thanks for posting this video. I’m just starting doing aero and I learned quite a bit from this video.
Glad you’re keep it on youtube as I will revisit a few times. cheers!!!