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	<title>Comments on: Why and HOW does spin affect the normal and tangential velocities of a ping pong ball after bounce?</title>
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	<link>http://www.thebestspinnerreviews.com/article-spinner-q-as/why-and-how-does-spin-affect-the-normal-and-tangential-velocities-of-a-ping-pong-ball-after-bounce/</link>
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		<title>By: nealjking</title>
		<link>http://www.thebestspinnerreviews.com/article-spinner-q-as/why-and-how-does-spin-affect-the-normal-and-tangential-velocities-of-a-ping-pong-ball-after-bounce/comment-page-1/#comment-818</link>
		<dc:creator>nealjking</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 08:15:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thebestspinnerreviews.com/article-spinner-q-as/why-and-how-does-spin-affect-the-normal-and-tangential-velocities-of-a-ping-pong-ball-after-bounce/#comment-818</guid>
		<description>Unfortunately, there are many possibilities. But I&#039;ll try to guide you through them:
Initially:
angular velocity A = A0
tangential velocity T = T0
normal velocity N = - N0  (I use the minus sign to indicate downward motion)

Post-bounce:
A = A1
T = T1
N = + N1 (upwards)

N: In a perfect bounce, all the energy put into compressing the ping-pong ball would be recovered, so N0 = N1. In practice, there is likely to be some loss due to heat dissipation, so that N1 &lt; N0. 

T: due to the spin of the ball, there could be a friction-based impact that changes the tangential speed. For overspin, it would increase the speed; for underspin, decrease it. Let&#039;s call the impact &quot;p&quot;: then
T1 = T + p/m  where m = mass of the ping-pong ball
and p is &gt; 0 for overspin and &lt; 0 for underspin.

A: when there is an impact due to spin, it will also affect the angular momentum of the ball, and it will always act to counter the existing spin. So for overspin:
A1 = A0 - r*p/I   where r = radius of ball and I is the moment of inertia
and for underspin:
A1 = A0 - r*p/I (but notice now that a1 and a0 are negative, and p is also negative - so it still acts to reduce the magnitude of A)

So the equations are:
a) N1 &lt; N0
b) T1 = T + p/m (where p is &gt; 0 for overspin, &lt; 0 for underspin)
c) A1 = A0 - r*p/I

I = integral ((x^2 + y^2) dm
  = (M/(4pi*r^2) integral (x^2 + y^2) (2pi*r^2*sin(b))db
  = (M/(4pi*r^2) integral (2pi)(r^4) sin(b)^3 db
  = (M*r^2)/2 * integral (sin^3(b) ) db

integral (sin^2(b) db = - integral (sin^2(b) dcos(b)
                                   = - integral (1 - cos^2(b)) dcos(b)
                                   = integral (1 - x^2) dx  {-1, 1}
                                   = x - x^3/3 {-1, 1}
                                   = 2 - (2/3)
                                   = 4/3
So I = 2Mr^2/3
and c) becomes:
c) A1 = A0 - p/(2Mr/3)
          = A0 - 3p/(2Mr)

So the complete equations are:
a) N1 &lt; N0
b) T1 = T + p/m (where p is &gt; 0 for overspin, &lt; 0 for underspin)
c) A1 = A0 - 3p/(2Mr)

You have some options:
- For simplicity, you could set N1 = N0. It&#039;s not realistic. Or you could arbitrarily reduce set N1/N0 to a factor less than 1.
- p is undetermined here. However, we are pretty sure that p cannot be so large as to change the sign of T. So you could set (p/M)/T0 to a factor less than 1.
- Once you do that, p/(Mr) is fixed. So you have to take whatever comes out of c).

Hope this helps!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unfortunately, there are many possibilities. But I&#8217;ll try to guide you through them:<br />
Initially:<br />
angular velocity A = A0<br />
tangential velocity T = T0<br />
normal velocity N = &#8211; N0  (I use the minus sign to indicate downward motion)</p>
<p>Post-bounce:<br />
A = A1<br />
T = T1<br />
N = + N1 (upwards)</p>
<p>N: In a perfect bounce, all the energy put into compressing the ping-pong ball would be recovered, so N0 = N1. In practice, there is likely to be some loss due to heat dissipation, so that N1 &lt; N0. </p>
<p>T: due to the spin of the ball, there could be a friction-based impact that changes the tangential speed. For overspin, it would increase the speed; for underspin, decrease it. Let&#8217;s call the impact &quot;p&quot;: then<br />
T1 = T + p/m  where m = mass of the ping-pong ball<br />
and p is &gt; 0 for overspin and &lt; 0 for underspin.</p>
<p>A: when there is an impact due to spin, it will also affect the angular momentum of the ball, and it will always act to counter the existing spin. So for overspin:<br />
A1 = A0 &#8211; r*p/I   where r = radius of ball and I is the moment of inertia<br />
and for underspin:<br />
A1 = A0 &#8211; r*p/I (but notice now that a1 and a0 are negative, and p is also negative &#8211; so it still acts to reduce the magnitude of A)</p>
<p>So the equations are:<br />
a) N1 &lt; N0<br />
b) T1 = T + p/m (where p is &gt; 0 for overspin, &lt; 0 for underspin)<br />
c) A1 = A0 &#8211; r*p/I</p>
<p>I = integral ((x^2 + y^2) dm<br />
  = (M/(4pi*r^2) integral (x^2 + y^2) (2pi*r^2*sin(b))db<br />
  = (M/(4pi*r^2) integral (2pi)(r^4) sin(b)^3 db<br />
  = (M*r^2)/2 * integral (sin^3(b) ) db</p>
<p>integral (sin^2(b) db = &#8211; integral (sin^2(b) dcos(b)<br />
                                   = &#8211; integral (1 &#8211; cos^2(b)) dcos(b)<br />
                                   = integral (1 &#8211; x^2) dx  {-1, 1}<br />
                                   = x &#8211; x^3/3 {-1, 1}<br />
                                   = 2 &#8211; (2/3)<br />
                                   = 4/3<br />
So I = 2Mr^2/3<br />
and c) becomes:<br />
c) A1 = A0 &#8211; p/(2Mr/3)<br />
          = A0 &#8211; 3p/(2Mr)</p>
<p>So the complete equations are:<br />
a) N1 &lt; N0<br />
b) T1 = T + p/m (where p is &gt; 0 for overspin, &lt; 0 for underspin)<br />
c) A1 = A0 &#8211; 3p/(2Mr)</p>
<p>You have some options:<br />
- For simplicity, you could set N1 = N0. It&#8217;s not realistic. Or you could arbitrarily reduce set N1/N0 to a factor less than 1.<br />
- p is undetermined here. However, we are pretty sure that p cannot be so large as to change the sign of T. So you could set (p/M)/T0 to a factor less than 1.<br />
- Once you do that, p/(Mr) is fixed. So you have to take whatever comes out of c).</p>
<p>Hope this helps!</p>
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		<title>By: confused :p</title>
		<link>http://www.thebestspinnerreviews.com/article-spinner-q-as/why-and-how-does-spin-affect-the-normal-and-tangential-velocities-of-a-ping-pong-ball-after-bounce/comment-page-1/#comment-819</link>
		<dc:creator>confused :p</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 08:15:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thebestspinnerreviews.com/article-spinner-q-as/why-and-how-does-spin-affect-the-normal-and-tangential-velocities-of-a-ping-pong-ball-after-bounce/#comment-819</guid>
		<description>coefficient of restitution
conservation of momentum
and friction</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>coefficient of restitution<br />
conservation of momentum<br />
and friction</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: civil_av8r</title>
		<link>http://www.thebestspinnerreviews.com/article-spinner-q-as/why-and-how-does-spin-affect-the-normal-and-tangential-velocities-of-a-ping-pong-ball-after-bounce/comment-page-1/#comment-820</link>
		<dc:creator>civil_av8r</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 08:15:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thebestspinnerreviews.com/article-spinner-q-as/why-and-how-does-spin-affect-the-normal-and-tangential-velocities-of-a-ping-pong-ball-after-bounce/#comment-820</guid>
		<description>Its an elastic collision with the ball and the table.  Also, the ball does not instantly bounce right back off the table.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Its an elastic collision with the ball and the table.  Also, the ball does not instantly bounce right back off the table.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: David N</title>
		<link>http://www.thebestspinnerreviews.com/article-spinner-q-as/why-and-how-does-spin-affect-the-normal-and-tangential-velocities-of-a-ping-pong-ball-after-bounce/comment-page-1/#comment-821</link>
		<dc:creator>David N</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 08:15:21 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Temporary distortion of mass distribution when the ball bounces (it&#039;s shape temporarily changes), friction, torque when the ball is in contact with the table and momentum,</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Temporary distortion of mass distribution when the ball bounces (it&#8217;s shape temporarily changes), friction, torque when the ball is in contact with the table and momentum,</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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