Comments on: Why and HOW does spin affect the normal and tangential velocities of a ping pong ball after bounce? http://www.thebestspinnerreviews.com/article-spinner-q-as/why-and-how-does-spin-affect-the-normal-and-tangential-velocities-of-a-ping-pong-ball-after-bounce/ Sun, 30 Jan 2011 10:38:53 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: nealjking http://www.thebestspinnerreviews.com/article-spinner-q-as/why-and-how-does-spin-affect-the-normal-and-tangential-velocities-of-a-ping-pong-ball-after-bounce/comment-page-1/#comment-818 nealjking Thu, 11 Mar 2010 08:15:21 +0000 http://www.thebestspinnerreviews.com/article-spinner-q-as/why-and-how-does-spin-affect-the-normal-and-tangential-velocities-of-a-ping-pong-ball-after-bounce/#comment-818 Unfortunately, there are many possibilities. But I'll try to guide you through them: Initially: angular velocity A = A0 tangential velocity T = T0 normal velocity N = - N0 (I use the minus sign to indicate downward motion) Post-bounce: A = A1 T = T1 N = + N1 (upwards) N: In a perfect bounce, all the energy put into compressing the ping-pong ball would be recovered, so N0 = N1. In practice, there is likely to be some loss due to heat dissipation, so that N1 < N0. T: due to the spin of the ball, there could be a friction-based impact that changes the tangential speed. For overspin, it would increase the speed; for underspin, decrease it. Let's call the impact "p": then T1 = T + p/m where m = mass of the ping-pong ball and p is > 0 for overspin and < 0 for underspin. A: when there is an impact due to spin, it will also affect the angular momentum of the ball, and it will always act to counter the existing spin. So for overspin: A1 = A0 - r*p/I where r = radius of ball and I is the moment of inertia and for underspin: A1 = A0 - r*p/I (but notice now that a1 and a0 are negative, and p is also negative - so it still acts to reduce the magnitude of A) So the equations are: a) N1 < N0 b) T1 = T + p/m (where p is > 0 for overspin, < 0 for underspin) c) A1 = A0 - r*p/I I = integral ((x^2 + y^2) dm = (M/(4pi*r^2) integral (x^2 + y^2) (2pi*r^2*sin(b))db = (M/(4pi*r^2) integral (2pi)(r^4) sin(b)^3 db = (M*r^2)/2 * integral (sin^3(b) ) db integral (sin^2(b) db = - integral (sin^2(b) dcos(b) = - integral (1 - cos^2(b)) dcos(b) = integral (1 - x^2) dx {-1, 1} = x - x^3/3 {-1, 1} = 2 - (2/3) = 4/3 So I = 2Mr^2/3 and c) becomes: c) A1 = A0 - p/(2Mr/3) = A0 - 3p/(2Mr) So the complete equations are: a) N1 < N0 b) T1 = T + p/m (where p is > 0 for overspin, < 0 for underspin) c) A1 = A0 - 3p/(2Mr) You have some options: - For simplicity, you could set N1 = N0. It's not realistic. Or you could arbitrarily reduce set N1/N0 to a factor less than 1. - p is undetermined here. However, we are pretty sure that p cannot be so large as to change the sign of T. So you could set (p/M)/T0 to a factor less than 1. - Once you do that, p/(Mr) is fixed. So you have to take whatever comes out of c). Hope this helps! Unfortunately, there are many possibilities. But I’ll try to guide you through them:
Initially:
angular velocity A = A0
tangential velocity T = T0
normal velocity N = – N0 (I use the minus sign to indicate downward motion)

Post-bounce:
A = A1
T = T1
N = + N1 (upwards)

N: In a perfect bounce, all the energy put into compressing the ping-pong ball would be recovered, so N0 = N1. In practice, there is likely to be some loss due to heat dissipation, so that N1 < N0.

T: due to the spin of the ball, there could be a friction-based impact that changes the tangential speed. For overspin, it would increase the speed; for underspin, decrease it. Let’s call the impact "p": then
T1 = T + p/m where m = mass of the ping-pong ball
and p is > 0 for overspin and < 0 for underspin.

A: when there is an impact due to spin, it will also affect the angular momentum of the ball, and it will always act to counter the existing spin. So for overspin:
A1 = A0 – r*p/I where r = radius of ball and I is the moment of inertia
and for underspin:
A1 = A0 – r*p/I (but notice now that a1 and a0 are negative, and p is also negative – so it still acts to reduce the magnitude of A)

So the equations are:
a) N1 < N0
b) T1 = T + p/m (where p is > 0 for overspin, < 0 for underspin)
c) A1 = A0 – r*p/I

I = integral ((x^2 + y^2) dm
= (M/(4pi*r^2) integral (x^2 + y^2) (2pi*r^2*sin(b))db
= (M/(4pi*r^2) integral (2pi)(r^4) sin(b)^3 db
= (M*r^2)/2 * integral (sin^3(b) ) db

integral (sin^2(b) db = – integral (sin^2(b) dcos(b)
= – integral (1 – cos^2(b)) dcos(b)
= integral (1 – x^2) dx {-1, 1}
= x – x^3/3 {-1, 1}
= 2 – (2/3)
= 4/3
So I = 2Mr^2/3
and c) becomes:
c) A1 = A0 – p/(2Mr/3)
= A0 – 3p/(2Mr)

So the complete equations are:
a) N1 < N0
b) T1 = T + p/m (where p is > 0 for overspin, < 0 for underspin)
c) A1 = A0 – 3p/(2Mr)

You have some options:
- For simplicity, you could set N1 = N0. It’s not realistic. Or you could arbitrarily reduce set N1/N0 to a factor less than 1.
- p is undetermined here. However, we are pretty sure that p cannot be so large as to change the sign of T. So you could set (p/M)/T0 to a factor less than 1.
- Once you do that, p/(Mr) is fixed. So you have to take whatever comes out of c).

Hope this helps!

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By: confused :p http://www.thebestspinnerreviews.com/article-spinner-q-as/why-and-how-does-spin-affect-the-normal-and-tangential-velocities-of-a-ping-pong-ball-after-bounce/comment-page-1/#comment-819 confused :p Thu, 11 Mar 2010 08:15:21 +0000 http://www.thebestspinnerreviews.com/article-spinner-q-as/why-and-how-does-spin-affect-the-normal-and-tangential-velocities-of-a-ping-pong-ball-after-bounce/#comment-819 coefficient of restitution conservation of momentum and friction coefficient of restitution
conservation of momentum
and friction

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By: civil_av8r http://www.thebestspinnerreviews.com/article-spinner-q-as/why-and-how-does-spin-affect-the-normal-and-tangential-velocities-of-a-ping-pong-ball-after-bounce/comment-page-1/#comment-820 civil_av8r Thu, 11 Mar 2010 08:15:21 +0000 http://www.thebestspinnerreviews.com/article-spinner-q-as/why-and-how-does-spin-affect-the-normal-and-tangential-velocities-of-a-ping-pong-ball-after-bounce/#comment-820 Its an elastic collision with the ball and the table. Also, the ball does not instantly bounce right back off the table. Its an elastic collision with the ball and the table. Also, the ball does not instantly bounce right back off the table.

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By: David N http://www.thebestspinnerreviews.com/article-spinner-q-as/why-and-how-does-spin-affect-the-normal-and-tangential-velocities-of-a-ping-pong-ball-after-bounce/comment-page-1/#comment-821 David N Thu, 11 Mar 2010 08:15:21 +0000 http://www.thebestspinnerreviews.com/article-spinner-q-as/why-and-how-does-spin-affect-the-normal-and-tangential-velocities-of-a-ping-pong-ball-after-bounce/#comment-821 Temporary distortion of mass distribution when the ball bounces (it's shape temporarily changes), friction, torque when the ball is in contact with the table and momentum, Temporary distortion of mass distribution when the ball bounces (it’s shape temporarily changes), friction, torque when the ball is in contact with the table and momentum,

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